tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post1447926672829328462..comments2024-02-28T12:04:11.837-08:00Comments on Jesus in Love Blog: Saint Wilgefortis: Bearded womanKittredge Cherryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-33618795900196297842016-01-21T13:30:44.412-08:002016-01-21T13:30:44.412-08:00My theory is that she was genetically male and had...My theory is that she was genetically male and had 5-alpha-reductase deficiency. Such affected individuals are phenotypically female at birth and then at puberty, the hormone surges cause rapid development into a male phenotype. The so-called guevedoces of the Dominican Republic are excellent examples of people affected by this syndrome.<br /><br />http://www.usrf.org/news/010308-guevedoces.html<br /><br />Dr. James Wilknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-11168418911573334832012-10-31T02:07:57.995-07:002012-10-31T02:07:57.995-07:00Hi Kittredge. Thanks for your reply, and the link,...Hi Kittredge. Thanks for your reply, and the link, which I followed. You're right, of course, that all the saints mentioned are women who adopted the male role. I wholly agree with you that the likeliest reason for this is the enormous social gap between women and men throughout much of human history (which still prevails in many parts of the modern world).<br /><br />I also agree that vestments do indeed have a feminine element to them: one of the traditional fabrics in the attire of Cardinals is lace. But even to a lesser extent, "ordinary" church vestments often consist of rich, heavy, tactile fabrics. I heard a BBC radio interview with a vicar choosing new vestments where he seemed a tad more enthusiastic than I would have expected about his new acquisitions. I suppose they don't call them "men of the cloth" for nothing!!<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-44438403729743475182012-10-30T21:16:04.109-07:002012-10-30T21:16:04.109-07:00Your theories on Saint Wilgefortis are scientifica...Your theories on Saint Wilgefortis are scientifically believable, Vivienne. No, there’s no reason why intersex people should be less spiritual. In fact, there is a reason that they should be more spiritual -- because they don’t fit in easily so they are forced to reflect more on life.<br /><br />As far as crossdressing saints, there are certainly more women who dressed as men than the reverse. Perhaps it’s because women had fewer rights and had a greater need to pass as men in order to escape gender constraints. I will say that some of the traditional attire for male priests and monks does have a distinctly feminine quality.<br /><br />Here’s a link to info on crossdressing saints, although as I mentioned they are mostly FTMs.<br /><br /><a href="http://queering-the-church.blogspot.com/2009/11/transvestite-saints.html" rel="nofollow"> http://queering-the-church.blogspot.com/2009/11/transvestite-saints.html</a>Kittredge Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-54859670875586097562012-10-30T01:44:33.492-07:002012-10-30T01:44:33.492-07:00What an interesting figure.
I think it's quit...What an interesting figure.<br /><br />I think it's quite likely that Wilgefortis was an intersex person. She might have been a genetic boy affected with severe hypospadias or other ambiguous genitalia. I speculate that she was assigned to the female sex at birth. She would have been raised as a girl, but gone on to develop male pubertal characteristics in her teenage years, which would coicide with her unwelcome marriage and prayers for deliverance. It's a theory which could fit the facts, though I have to say that the Wikipedia theory, that the earliest depictions of her were actually supposed to be Jesus, takes some beating.<br /><br />There is no reason whatever why intersex people should be any less spiritual or devotional than "ordinary" people. What makes Wilgefortis so interesting is that there seems to be a relative paucity of such people in Christian hagiography.<br /><br />I am interested in who might be the patron saint of male crossdressers. Why should it be considered highly laudable for Joan of Arc to dress and adopt the role of a man? Every French village has a cafe named after her. Why doesn't she have a male counterpart?<br /><br />Personally, I can seriously identify with scholarly figures who would spend hours in quiet contemplation, illuminating manuscripts or translating scriptures. On the other hand, while that would satisfy the intellectual (and spiritual) sides of my brain (and my work is something like the modern equivalent), it would do nothing whatever for my emotional side.<br /><br />Sorry for rambling.<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-9493319250326060912012-08-05T08:47:38.204-07:002012-08-05T08:47:38.204-07:00I appreciate the reminder that saints originally r...I appreciate the reminder that saints originally rose from the grassroots and were recognized only on a local level. May Saint Wilgefortis bless your work on behalf of intersex people!Kittredge Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-49269987715041166752012-08-02T11:13:26.096-07:002012-08-02T11:13:26.096-07:00I am inclined to think St Wilgefortis was a real p...I am inclined to think St Wilgefortis was a real person, and most probably intersex. There are numerous encounters in history where the 'establishment' has hidden away queer and 'unhealthy' people - but countered by local communities who have accepted the outcast, and at times elevated them to honour and even sainthood. It should be remembered that in earlier Christianity the 'cult' of sainthood was invariably a very local affair.Br G-Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05477600881751721404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-88604222272701484442012-07-25T15:54:38.762-07:002012-07-25T15:54:38.762-07:00Wednesday, your comparison to St. Catherine of Ale...Wednesday, your comparison to St. Catherine of Alexandria is interesting. I share your regret that Wilgefortis is probably not a real historical figure, but she certainly seems to be a popular archetype in the human heart.<br /><br />I revised the text of this post by adding the possibility that Wilgefortis was asexual after reading a comment about that over at <a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/07/24/and-theyll-know-we-are-christians-by-our-t-shirt-logos/" rel="nofollow"> Patheos.com</a>, where this post was highlighted. There are so many possible explanations for the mysterious bearded lady… all of them shedding light on different aspects of human sexuality and gender!Kittredge Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-42478297847622029852012-07-25T09:18:28.769-07:002012-07-25T09:18:28.769-07:00Thank you for letting us know about this very inte...Thank you for letting us know about this very interesting saint! It's too bad that hir historicity is questionable at best, but that doesn't make the story itself any less delightful.<br /><br />(It can be a good thing for the Catholic Church to, ah, "officially retire" saints of dubious historicity. St. Catherine of Alexandria is a good example -- she's pretty clearly a co-option of the real historical person Hypatia of Alexandria. The story of Catherine is that she was a Christian murdered by an angry mob of pagans, while the real Hypatia was a pagan murdered by an angry mob of Christians. So retaining St. Catherine of Alexandria erases a real person and conveniently blames the evils committed by some Christians on The Other.)Wednesdaynoreply@blogger.com