tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post8596747550940198425..comments2024-02-28T12:04:11.837-08:00Comments on Jesus in Love Blog: Joan of Arc: Cross-dressing warrior-saintKittredge Cherryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-53847582361214210432016-06-21T17:56:17.847-07:002016-06-21T17:56:17.847-07:00Not many people know that Jehanne was extremely o...Not many people know that Jehanne was extremely out of her comfort zone when she went to war and that if not for her voices she would not have been there at all. <br /><br />I know a lot about Jehanne because I love her. She has inspired me in so many ways. I want people to know how she insisted on caring for those in need and how she defended innocents and even the enemy soldiers from being mistreated. I want them to know that she though grew up in a time of suffering and injustice but did not allow vengeance and showed kindness and mercy to those who fought on the other side. People forget that she got homesick and kissed a ring her parents gave her. I want them to see her good wits in all situations and the comradeship she shared with her friends.<br /><br />Because of this I am very zealous in ensuring accuracy in those who seem to care. Every aspect of her is important to me, from her love of horses and fine armor, to her intelligence and wisdom, to her being proud of being the best at spinning wool, to her care for those in need and to her selflessness in leaving her beloved old life to perform what her Saints told her. <br /><br />if I didn't think this blog was good in the summery of her life (though you left out her uncle and Vaucouleurs (a very common deliberate summarisation or unintentional emission, which ever the authors reason)and Poitiers (the trial for approval, sadly the documents are lost)I would not have bothered commenting.<br />The people who reject the documents and ignore historical context, like the princess theorists, tend to be on the fringe and unwilling to examine the sources.<br /><br />I don't want to refute your opinion, but I would like it if you clarified how she is recorded to have identified herself, because it would still fit in with the idea of the article but without any confusion of what she said of herself.<br /><br />It's not a bad article but I think it could better represent Jehanne if you said something about her total dedication to her mission having to do with her vow and hence her persistence with the clothing. She and others (like the priest at Poitiers) did not make as much of it as her judges did, Jehanne saying it was the "least of all matters" and should not prevent her from Mass. She was eventually willing to take on women's clothing but only if she were taken out her awful prison and had a women guarding her and was allowed to receive Mass but was unrelenting on all other matters. she may have had permission to wear a dress or she may have been willing to wear it under those conditions until she gained freedom since it would be safer with a woman guard and she longed to receive Mass above all else. She did not renounce her wearing of it even then, holding that all she had done was by God's command and that that changing garb was the only thing she could do as they wished. The fact that she did not put them off earlier, allowing only a dress to hear Mass in provided she could change back, demonstrates her obedience to what she was told to do and her trust in God. It is interesting that she said she would go back to women's clothes when she had done what she needed to do, and that immediately after she confirmed her faith in her mission and it's source and thus her fate, she was willing to put the clothes on. It is just speculation on my part whether this has any meaning though.<br /><br />I think the connection it had to her larger duty would be good to note. <br /><br />That is just my thoughts. Not everyone would go into as many details as I would do, since I am obsessed. I see now how uptight I am about accuracy and study and quotes. Sorry for that. I don't mean to insult or anything I just wish for everyone to see exactly what she said and what she did, because she was even braver than people imagine her to have been.JoanFanaticnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-22381634495372359602016-06-21T17:55:52.643-07:002016-06-21T17:55:52.643-07:00I read it carefully. I see that you addressed some...I read it carefully. I see that you addressed some, like her chastity. While all of her words on when she swore virginity, cultural context and eyewitness accounts point to confirmation that she was indeed a virgin in all manners, you are correct that it cannot be physically detected in examination. I see that perhaps I was overzealous on this count, since you seem to have been referring to physical confirmation as proof.<br />I do not see where there is any hint that she may have been a lesbian, since her preference to sleep in a woman's bed was because it was more comfortable to sleep without armor and she felt safer. These were rough men and it is understandable why she would sleep fully armed next to them and why she would sleep in a safer room without all that heavy gear. A single bed was not an option back then.<br /> Why she preferred to sleep alongside young ladies rather than old, I think is because she was young herself and I find that girls prefer to sleep among peers. If you think that it was because she thought young ladies were prettier, I would contest that with her staunch adherence to her vow, her unwavering dedication to it and her mission and what virginity meant to people of that time she would not have likely purposely fanned romantic wishes in any way, but indeed there is nothing to show what her reason for this was.<br /><br />About her being trans, I do think that if you call her a she, as she did herself, you should be clearer that she was not a trans man. it would be wrong to call a man by she. Yes, she took on a "manly" position and held her clothing in important regard, but she practically shouted from the rooftops that she was La Pucelle, a virgin girl and she was comfortable in her female body, and wished to be buried in woman's garb. Please recognise her gender as she called it herself, and be clearer on how she defied gender roles and held to clothing as a sacred duty rather than being a man. If you call her trans it seems like she was a man. Do you mean something different when you say trans?<br /><br />There are many interpretations of history,but what happened happened so please recognise the recorded facts which is that she consistently referred to herself as a woman. <br /><br />I only want people to know that Jehanne is not the mysterious person people make her out to be. She is one of the best recorded people in medieval history, her personality is not obscured but remembered vividly by eyewitnesses, she did not go into her career with pleasure but with duty and sacrifice. So many people do not regard the original sources and read history in context. I want to make sure that anyone wishing to talk about Jehanne knows where to get the information and what she said about herself and her mission. <br /><br />Example: People say that Jehanne attempted suicide<br />Fact: She jumped from a tall building and was knocked out. She said that she did not wish to die but was willing to risk her life to save a city from massacre and if she died that it was better than going to the English. She made other attempts to escape and held it as her right to want freedom. She did repent of this attempt because she was told not to jump and that help would come for the city, but she could not bear to not being there to help.<br />What one may interpret: <br />1: She made a last ditch escape attempt in desperation<br />2: She wanted either outcome<br />3: other<br />but it does matter that the sources are properly cited and such.<br /><br />I do think recognising her as a woman who believed in her "masculine" role and dress despite opposition is important. Jehanne did not want to live like a man, judging by her comment on rather being torn limb to limb than go to war and how she talked about how she would like to go back to her home where she spun wool and prayed, her favourite activities. But despite the modest and homebodyish tendencies implied by her embarrassment at praise and not liking to stay away from her village she believed in her mission and garb as commanded and obeyed.<br /><br />JoanFannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-50096972704280370692016-06-02T19:10:50.191-07:002016-06-02T19:10:50.191-07:00JoanFan, thanks for raising various issues of hist...JoanFan, thanks for raising various issues of historical accuracy. I don't think you read my article carefully because I did address many of your claims. Still Joan's life is open to interpretation, and you have a right to see it differently than I do. Kittredge Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29680163.post-21426899659362922302016-06-01T10:58:42.423-07:002016-06-01T10:58:42.423-07:00Please don't confuse gender identity and cloth...Please don't confuse gender identity and clothing. Joan, who's real name is Jehanne saw herself as a woman and always called herself one and even asked to be buried in a dress. Her femaleness was an important part of her so please do not negate it. Both trans people and Jehanne face/d discrimination based on people's idea of what a woman or man should be. From what I have heard from trans people it is about more than clothes or jobs but about who they are.<br />Jehanne was a woman, and trans people are not cross-dressers. please do not confuse the two.<br />Jehanne saw herself as soldier and dressed the part. To take off the clothes was like taking off the mission and she was not done yet! <br />In both cases it is about more than clothes so please be more specific so that misconceptions are not spread.<br />Also please just say that she was known for her virginity. She was more than a physical virgin, she consecrated her very being to God like a warrior nun almost. She did not do anything unchaste with the women and girls she roomed with, we know this by their reference to her chastity. That is how we know she abstained from sex with both genders. This to was important to her.<br />Please tell the story of LA PUCELLE (the maiden)as it sums up what she considered her self, a young virgin woman called by God. <br />This is not her true history, though I am always happy to see her story shared and the pictures are beautiful.<br />You can do better in honouring her by representing what she truly was. Please do this, I beg, for so many falsehoods are spread about her that people no longer think one can know her true story. but it is so easy to find, just read the documents and gain some understanding of her spirituality and era is all one needs to see who she was. I think you want to tell and know the truth so please do so with Jehanne. <br />If you do this I will return and show you many lovely pictures of her as well as obscure information that took me a long time to discover to enhance your blog post about her. I can also do this for other historical figures if you want. <br />But in the name of truth, even if you do not want my offer, please fix the inaccuracies. God loves truth and if you have a message from Him or in honour of Him have no doubt that the truth is sufficient. But please make this page reflect that truthJoanFannoreply@blogger.com